Hey everyone I am new to L&NP group and fairly new to Fstoppers.
The last few images I’ve posted in my portfolio during certain hours within an hour or two I receive one or two star votes nothing ever more. If I post later in the evening I get 3 to 4 stars votes. Has anyone else experience this or anything similar. I am not star hungry but these low rating without comments are hurtful and damaging. I’m bias, so I am posting them here asking for group input of these images.
1) Weathered Juniper Tree
2) Inner Canyon Rim to Rim
3) Elder Wood / Ancient Wisdom
4) Raw Earth / Golden Light
UPDATE April 18, 2024
Here is the latest update just last night I posted a new image to my portfolio and within an hour receive a infamous 1 vote 2 star/needs work rating.
I am beginning to understand why members post as little to no information with their posted images an/or their likes star rates or even take part in discussions.
My taste are your first and third photo as a strong composition. I have not figured the Star Scheme...some of mine have no votes while others have 2- 4 stars.
Dean thank you for you support and comment what you feel are my strongest compositions 1) Weathered Juniper Tree and 3) Elder Wood / Ancient Wisdom. Thank you for that input both were rated as the other images with one star = “Shapshot” and/or a 2 star = “Needs Work” once again these votes are with a 2 hour window after posting. Which is odd. Two personally I would not leave a “needs work” rating without a reason, and my comments would be more constructive criticism than anything. I have a hard time rating an image excellent without congratulation or words of encouragement to achieve that “World Class” rating.
The Star Scheme as you put it is multi level the only importance to me as you also know it limits or enables how many images a member can post. These are the two conflicting FStopper as to when member are allotted 3 more images :
https://fstoppers.com/photos/upload
(Click on the question mark in the circle this notice comes up)
In an effort to encourage our members to only upload their best work to their portfolios, we limit the amount of uploads to 30 images for each member. However, you may earn more upload spots the more you engage with the site.
Things that will earn you new upload spots include (but are not limited to):
Your photo has an average rating of 3 or more stars and at least 5 votes
Your photo is chosen as an Editor's Pick
Your photo is chosen for Photo of the Day
You are chosen as Photographer of the Month
You are chosen for Photographer of the Year
You are featured on the Fstoppers Instagram
In the FAQ section you get this:
https://fstoppers.com/faq
The upload limit is 30 photos. However, for each photo that has an average rating of at least 3.5 stars and has been rated by at least 5 people, you will earn extra uploads. In other words, you can potentially have unlimited uploads if all your images are rated highly by the community. There are also other achievements for being active on the site, having an up-to-date profile, being selected for Photo of the Day, etc. that can be unlocked on the site. We will send you a notification when you earn new upload spots.
I really like 1, and 3 as well. In particular the black and white is striking! As far as the star thing I hear you. Decoding that is challenging and frustrating. Watching some of the “Critique the community” videos on YouTube helped me get my head around it some. I do think pursuing it has helped me grow as a photographer though. I have found the overall feedback on both groups and ratings/ comments seems pretty sparse on this site. So, try not to take that too personal
Steve, Thank you for your response and input my posted images both of which initially receive very low ratings within a couple of hours of posting. A couple of 1 and 2 star ratings or a combination of the two just buries them as far as achieving the star rating 3 or 3.5 with 5 or more votes. All are bogged down in a mire hovering just slightly above the 3.0 rating I have nicknamed “Purgatory”.
Oh yes I have watch many of the “Critique the Community” videos all the ones I have had entries and others that cover themes I have interest in. Lee and do a fabulous job with them and if you have watched enough the are aware of the community members harshness of the star voting system. It’s the same system but two totally different animals. Maybe within “Critique the Community” / “Contest” some kind of bell curve needs to be applied or like me have a duck like attitude and just let the water (stars) roll off my back. But when it comes to our profile pages as the rule of this limiting the number of images posted by members and the rating system were set. Is to have members post their “Best” work these low voters are harming participant’s reputations as photographers and artist. A person Profile page is not meant as a competition it is a members “Showcase”. If you done like their work or the style just don’t vote or if you are moved enough to vote 1 or 2 stars leave a comment stating why.
I hear you on the feedback thing it’s sad but it can be past off as part of the world we live in which is kind of ironic in that photography is for many photographer get involved in to escape that “world”.
Back to the “Critique the Community”, I found it interesting in the recent Wildlife the voting to me seemed a lot more relaxed and liberal. But when you look at the ones on Landscape and Architectural the gloves seem to come off. To me this also seems to spill over to the general community.
Once again Steve thanks for your time and expressing your views
Paul
I agree that dropping a 1 or 2 on someone should require some explanation. But I haven't seen it done
Steven sad to say I agree. But for now as individuals all we can do is lead by example. Mind you I’m just taking about the general profile and portfolio system. As to “Critique the Community” I figure that’s Lee and Patrick’s bag and they seem to be handling it alright. Have you noticed the host and guest give a full spectrum of star ratings and in a light heart way poke fun at the low ratings from the community. It sounds as if these are going to become a regular monthly event.
You might be interested in this article I found a week or so ago :
https://fstoppers.com/critiques/how-properly-critique-photograph-82407
If you like pass it on, if not in the cyber waste basket :-)
Later
Personally I found getting honest, objective and constructive feedback on my own photography hard to obtain online from people that are qualified to do so, and whose opinion I respect. Anybody can like or not like an image, and there is nothing wrong with that. But explaining why a certain image works or doesn't takes some experience and training. And critiquing also has some subjectivity of course.
Then I found a camera club in my local area, where participants submit images to competitions, The images then get critiqued and rated by a judge in front of the club. The photographers are anonymous during the critiquing process, and names are only revealed for the winning images. So if I submit an image that gets canned by the judge for whatever reason, nobody except myself will know it was my image. So I got the feedback, but I'm not publicly humiliated. Of course there are better and worse judges, and some judges are better with say wildlife images than with abstracts or vice versa. So sometimes I might disagree with a judges opinion. But most of time, and especially over time, if I'm truly honest with myself, I'll have to agree with the judges.
During competitions you also get to see the images and critiques of all the other participants, and over time you will start to see patterns, be able to predict which images work well in the competition, and what the judge is going to say about a certain image.
Hearing this feedback over time for your own images as well as those of others, you will start to understand what makes a good image in the eyes of an outside viewer, and in turn, and most importantly, it will help you become a better photographer.
To me, joining a camera club is the best way to get consistent, honest and constructive feedback on one's photography. I wrote an article that explains the process of our club, as well as the benefits of joining one on my website:
https://alexschmutz.com/photo-clubs-competitions
So, since you're looking for feedback, I'd look for a camera club, join it and submit images to competition, and ultimately it will make you a better photographer.
Also, below I put some hopefully constructive thoughts on your images:
I love image #3, the structure in the tree takes the eye through the image from the bottom to the top. I also love the color, and the light and the texture in the wood are beautiful. This is the strongest photo of the group, I don't really see much to critique here, it's a beautiful shot that I think would do well in a competition. Perhaps this might also work in B&W.
Image #1, I think the B&W conversion works well, I love the texture in the wood, particularly the bottom half I think is what's interesting in this image. The top to me it s a bit disorienting with the branches going off in all directions and no real flow. I might crop it and leave the bottom half, turning it into a horizontal, perhaps 4x5 aspect ratio or even square. That way you're really emphasizing the structure in the wood, particularly in the think slightly darker branch on the right gives it a flow for the eye to go through the image. There is also that funny looking branch in about the middle and slightly to the left that looks like to smiling creature with long beautiful "hair", make sure to leave that and maybe emphasize it through dodging and burning.
#2 I love the banding in the rock, the valleys in the upper half, and texture in the in the valley below. As is though, it was probably shot at the wrong time of day for this image, it looks a bit flat, because there are no shadows to give the image structure and definition.
I might crop the out the sky and the bottom dirt path, leaving the interesting part of the image as an abstract. Perhaps also covert it to B&W, make it quite contrasty and dodge and burn some areas to make it a bit more dynamic and create a path for the eye to wander through the image.
#4 to me is the weakest, because it doesn't seem to have clear subject, I'm not sure what I'm looking at, nor is there really anything attractive that I do want to look at. it's concrete, but there is no sense of scale. Maybe a subject could be the horsehead-looking rock formation in the center, but if that's the subject I'd focus in on that, and lose much of the rest that doesn't really contribute.
Alex, I’m back had some other stuff to catch up on. Thank you for your thoughtful and heartfelt critiques and suggestions through your Is ;-). That maybe have been a failed attempt at humor which at times is as abstract as some of my photographic compositions. Eye ;-) can do you one better any image you like to try I can supply you the longitude and latitude coordinates that should get you within a mile or few of each subject others with feet/meters.
I do appreciate your input and I don’t want you or others to take this wrong. But, I think you over shot the original point I was trying to make.
This was some members have adapted 1 and 2 stars to handicap other members ratings. They have gone hog wild in the “Critique the Community/Competitions” with low rating (coming soon to a group discussion near you). And some maybe applying the practice in the general community.
Here’s a run down. All these images where posted within an hour or two the same time frame (“normal world operating hours”). Within an hour or two of their posting they all received either a one (snapshot) or two (needs work) star rating and no comment as to why.
Behind door #3 Elder Wood/Ancient Wisdom after about 6 weeks 7 votes with an average community rating of 3.14 (3 of those voters rated it a 4 excellent)
#1 Weathered Juniper Tree after about 3 months 2 votes with an average community rating of 3 (1 vote of 4)
#2 Inner Canyon / Rim to Rim after about 3 months 2 votes with an average community rating of 3 (1 vote of 4)
#4 Raw Earth / Golden Light after just over a month 6 votes with an average community rating of 3 (2 votes of 4)
So I was wondering if anyone else had experience 1 or 2 star votes within an hour or two postings around the middle of the day. Where when posting later in the day seem to get 4 and occasionally a 3 star vote hours after posting maybe a day or longer ?
I personally have not had that experience, but how others rate your images is not something that you're in control of, and I would take that with a grain of salt. Who sees your images depends, at least in part on an algorithm accountability to what someone rates your image. You don't know who votes/rates images, anyone can open an account on this website and start rating, it doesn't mean they have to know anything about photography and what a good image is.
Hence my suggestion to for you to join a camera club, where you'll get much more qualified and constructive feedback. As I laid you in the article on my website, at the end of a competition is a survey, where members rate the judge. So if the collective members of the club feel a judge was bad, unfair, inconsistent, too though without being constructive etc, the club will make sure that judge won't be invited next year. So there is a level of accountability. Judges also go through training by the overarching organizations, and they have been serious photographers for a long time.
Alex, thank you for your response and helpful and well meant thoughts. Yes it is virtually impossible to live a salt free life these days especially online. I learned early on with my interest in photography the worst critiques come from family, friends etc., generally people how are not qualified but far worse give unjustly praise as a form of encouragement. This enables you artist to continue with an endless stream of errors.
I eventually learned early on how to be my own best critic. Which learning shooting film was in my opinion a lot easier and efficient. One you’re dealing in rolls of film (or single sheets) and not memory cards full of a couple hundred mega pixel images shot in an hour or two. Within film you should learn to be critical with your image, photo … capture before you press the shutter release. No in camera LCD monitor to chimp in the field to start reviewing your results, I never trusted this too much and never delete from the memory card except for the most erroneous frames otherwise I wait to see my results on a monitor. Shooting with film even if you had access to 24 hour turnover processing you have no chance of returning in attempt for a “re-shoot”. To pick up the pace here in going to paraphrase here with we’ve all heard it before “quality over quantity”.
Back to the rating system here at Fstoppers isn’t social media like or dislike thumbs up or down smiles or frowning emojis. If you don’t have the time and/or aptitude to explain a low rating maybe you shouldn’t be rating that image. Personally if I have something to often a member no matter the number of stars or even with out a star rating I’d rather just comment than harmful the chance in showing more images in time. Anyway I will lot at the members body of work for an over view of ability, images they have rated, aspirations/influences, and most recently the member’s comment to see if they are even still active or interested.
This ability of critiquing brings to mind a favorite Einstein quote,”If you can’t explain it to a six year old you don’t understand it yourself”. And here’s your grain of salt take the quote as you may (not exclusive to anyone).
Thanks for your input and insight to local Camera Clubs. Sadly to say I haven’t the experience. I have live far too remote for such amenities. I plan to read (I presume your) article that you linked here. But virtually aren’t all members of Fstoppers in possibility the largest online Camera Club (membership fee free Don’t get any ideas Lee and Patrick) in the world.
Once again Thanks for your input and advice Alex
Paul
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Now I get it Alex your second part of you post looks like it was posted as a reply to yourself !?
it was a reply to myself. Regarding camera clubs, since covid the competitions are either fully over zoom, or hybrid. So if you want to join one I wouldn't let location be a hindrance. Our club is in New Jersey, in the USA, meetings are at 7pm EST and usually end by 9pm. Anyone can really join, they don't need to live in New Jersey or even in the USA. For those who are unable to join the live call, the meeting is recorded and distributed to the members afterwards. So you don't even have to live in same time zone to be able to participate. You're not talking during the meeting anyway, there's no arguing with the judge.